Roy DuNann vs Rudy Van Gelder and the winner is........

1/23/2013

When it comes to recorded jazz, these two engineers are in my opinion, the "COUP DE GRACE". However, when it comes to notoriety, I would bet the bank that Rudy Van Gelder would win this category hands down. In a career spanning more than half a century,Van Gelder has recorded many of the great names in the genre, including Miles Davis, Thelonious Monk, Sonny Rollins, Joe Henderson, Grant Green, Wayne Shorter, John Coltrane, and many others. He worked with many record companies, but he is most closely associated withBlue Note Records, now a division of EMI. The signature of a Van Gelder recording lies in the rich, natural tone of each instrument and the clearly defined separation between them, ensuring that every sonic detail is audible. This was accomplished by the strategic placement of instruments in the studio, though his exact technique has always been a closely guarded secret. Van Gelder's main goal was to create the best mood for the musicians to perform in, and from the results, he seems to have greatly succeeded. Among the timeless recordings made under his aegis are John Coltrane's Blue Train (Blue Note) Miles Davis' Workin' (Prestige), Andrew Hill's Point of Departure (Blue Note), Freddie Hubbard's Red Clay(CTI), Wayne Shorter's Speak No Evil (Blue Note), and Gene Ammons' Boss Tenor (Prestige) to name just a few. There is a excellent interview with RVG here: http://jazzprofiles.blogspot.com/2011/05/rudy-van-gelder-signature-sound.html.

I'm sure there are many who have never heard of Roy DuNann.The first two CD's on my Blog Reference CD's are Joe Gordon "Looking Good" and Jimmy Woods "Awakening". Both of these CD's are on the Contemporary Record label. I happen to have Joe Gordon's "Looking Good" on vinyl as well. Both of these were recorded by Roy DuNann. In 1951 in Los Angeles, Lester Koenig founded the jazz record label Contemporary Records. Contemporary was known for seminal recordings embodying the West Coast sound, but also released recordings based in New York. Under Lester Koenig's supervision, Contemporary recorded such artists as Sonny Rollins, Ornette Coleman, Cecil Taylor, Art Farmer,Benny Golson, the Curtis Counce Group (featuring Harold Land, Jack Sheldon, Carl Perkins and Frank Butler), Ben Webster, Benny Carter, Chet Baker, Art Pepper, Phineas Newborn, Jr., Woody Shaw, Shelly Manne, Hampton Hawes, Barney Kessel, Leroy Vinnegar, and Howard Rumsey's Lighthouse All-Stars. Koenig maintained extremely high audio standards. He hired Roy DuNann from Capitol Records in 1956, who, out of the label's shipping room turned studio, turned out some of the best sounding records of the time. DuNann provided some details of his techniques in a Stereophile article http://www.stereophile.com/interviews/402roy/ nearly 50 years later. He said Koenig provided him with German (Neumann/Telefunken U-47) and Austrian (AKG C-12) condenser microphones and he immediately noted the very high output of these microphones, especially close-in on jazz musicians' dynamic playing. DuNann achieved his signature sound—crisp, clear and balanced without distortion or unpleasant "peak presence"—by keeping his microphone setups very simple (generally one per musician) and avoided the use of pre-amplifiers for them. He built a simple passive mixing system that directly fed the electronics of his Ampex 350 and 351 tape machines.http://www.soundfountain.com/contemporary/contemporary.html

Both of these recording engineers have allowed me to enjoy the music for decades. As my system has evolved, so has my appreciation of these remarkable, dedicated artisans who have made one "HELLAVA" prodigious impact on the record industry. The evolution of my system (an all tube) has also taught me the irrevocable beauty of simplicity. The simplicity that Roy DuNann brought to the recording process, to these ears, inexorably captured a greater purity and immediacy of the sound and from a qualitative perspective the winner is, in my humble opinion,...........Roy DuNann.

11 Comments

John Wheeler

1/24/2013 09:12:43 am

Since I have limited exposure to DuNann’s work but have years and years of listening time with Van Gelder, It’s hard to be objective. I can only comment from a first impression point of view. To my ears DuNann has a clinical approach to his sound, bright and open, almost crisp while Van Gelder tends to be on the dark and moody side. Van Gelder conjures up images of smoke filled clubs of Lower Manhattan and Uptown. Is that sound image accurate? Probably not. Is DuNann’s sound better? That depends on what you are looking for in musical reproduction. Some people like impressionist art and some like realist. Is one better that the other? You be the judge. For me, I prefer Van Gelder.

Herman Perkins

1/25/2013 02:26:34 pm

Having recently been introduced DuNann, i found his recordings(on vinyl) to be clear and crisp. Having said that I've been listening to Van Gelder for decades and have cherished the quality of his recordings. So my hat's off to Van Gelder.

Matthew Goldwasser

1/31/2013 05:58:41 am

East Coast vs. West Coast. Both Old School. Complicated by my taste in the artists they both recorded. I appreciate both and while I do not have the acute audio sensibilities as perhaps most visitors to this blog/website, I do like my recorded music simple and clean; but not anticeptic. I am going to cast my vote for DuNann because I think he kept it simple longer, although how much simpler can recording get than in a house in Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey? Sound engineers deserve a lot more due than they've ever received. This little vote is a step in that direction.

Jesse link

9/12/2016 09:36:00 am

RVG's house was in Hackensack (since destroyed). Englewood Cliffs is where his "new" studio opened in 1959 and was still open until recently. We don't know what will happen.

Anyway, when talking about the "RVG sound," you must differentiate between the two. In Hackensack when literally squeezing in a piano, a set of drums, and several other musicians, there is little room for large mic stands and little room to position them leaving few choices. That said, in a small space, such as Hackensack with its 10-foot ceilings, a decent recording will necessarily place the micr close in to the instruments in order to minimize the amount of reflected sound. In a small room these short non-diffused reflections are extremely deleterious and are easily heard by any listener.

John C

2/14/2013 06:59:41 am

Our response to a musical performance of an artist or recording engineer is subjective and rooted in deep feeling. There is no one "truth" about what we hear and feel.
Partly because every difference is different, and partly because my ears and brain just don't switch that quickly. It would seem that the argument is not whether they sound different, or better (everything sounds different), it's whether anyone can hear the difference, and following that, evaluate the difference.
Van Gelder's quantity, vs DuNamm's quality. Both are excellent recording engineers, in some respects, I like the purity of DuNamm's sound.
Having said all that, if I can't pass, just vote present, cast two votes, or abstain, then I cast my vote for Van Gelder, because I have heard and enjoyed more of his music that DuNamm's.

Terry London

2/26/2013 08:53:26 am

Who's better Micheal Jordan or LaBron James! Both DuNann and Van Gelder recorded some of the most important albums in the history of Jazz. Each had their unique way of recording, DeNann very accurate timbres with great clarity, Van Gelder warmer/richer midrange which is great on sax and brass instruments. I'll call it a tie. I'm just glad they both were around to record the great music of Be Bop and Hard Bop in the 50's and early 60's.

Dave Vorhis

3/2/2013 12:07:11 pm

I voted for Roy DuNann for the superb sound quality on a number of my favorite Barney Kessel records including Easy Like, Let's Cook, and the whole Poll Winners series. Both men were great engineers though.

Allen Mayes

3/5/2013 06:09:16 am

Both men are great engineers Mr. Rudy Van Gelder has recored the greats in jazz musicians like Mr.Gene Ammon,Mr.Sonny Rollins and others on the blue note records.He has that ability and textural , and transient delicacy to separate each instrument on a stereo harmonic structure recording sound.He offers an abundance of musically agreeable qualities, that may or may not be critical to your enjoyment of recorded music.So in short Mr.Rudy Van Gelder will be my choice.

Keith D. Perry link

3/15/2013 02:56:11 am

I have enjoyed both engineers work for decades, but my vote goes to Van Gelder because he's recorded some of my favorite artists of all time.

Stephen Kurpis

3/4/2015 06:13:21 pm

Some broad observations:

DuNann - Individual instruments are flawless recorded; however like the lion's share of early stereo recordings, the center image is non-existent.

Van Gelder - Bass register can be a bit distorted or boomy at times and the high end a bit drowned out by reverb; however Van Gelder consistantly displayed an attention to sonic image that was unmatched by other engineers.

As such, my vote is cast for Van Gelder

Jesse Klapholz link

9/12/2016 09:38:39 am

Roy DuNann vs Rudy Van Gelder and the winner is........

Leave a Reply.

Authors

Archives

Categories